BBB Under Scrutiny

My name is Scott Jordan. I own and operate a janitorial company (Jordan Janitorial) in Mesa, AZ. A former US Army officer with BS and MS degrees, I have been married 35 years to the same young lady. We have seven children and 22 grandchildren and one more on the way. And I am still young, having turned 55 in June. Okay, I am not that young, but I am not that old either.

One of my talents is making order out of chaotic situations. On many occasions, I have developed plans of action that eventually resulted in extremely high achievement.

Very humbly, I hope this talent will serve us all well when it comes to facing down the BBB. The BBB needlessly harms untold thousands of good business owners, their families, employees, and in too many in stances, customers as well, and it needs to stop.

I joined the Phoenix-area BBB in June 2008. The BBB rated my business as an A- in January 2009, putting my business in the bottom third of my competition with only two businesses rated worse than mine.

I asked for my money back, telling the BBB that it used my money (and the information I gave it) against my company's best interest.

They denied any breach of good faith and would not refund my money. This experience taught me that the BBB does not practice what it preaches when it comes to customer satisfaction. I have first-hand knowledge the BBB will put money before principle.

I also wanted to speak with the person who rated my business. I wanted to determine the qualifications this person had to rate one janitorial company as more trustworthy and reliable than another. I wanted to talk with the person who felt comfortable enough to parse thousands of businesses of all types into 13 different levels of distinction, harming the reputations of most of them and learn if this person slept well at night.

Instead of answering my questions, the Phoenix BBB referred me to the CBBB. I wrote a letter to the CCCB on January 7, 2009. To date, I have not received a response. I haven't pursued the CBBB, knowing it be a grand waste of time and effort.

Besides, I gave my money to the Phoenix BBB, who are of independent of the CBBB. It could give me my money back if it wanted to--and answer my questions. However, the Phoenix BBB simply chose not to do so.

The BBB seldom hesitates to posts complaints against any business for all the world to see, but The BBB does not do the same for itself.

This was also a hard lesson to learn. Without a clear record of how the BBB handled complaints against itself, how could the public tell if the BBB is working like it should?

Taking some kind of action, I posted my experience to www.ripoff.com. Please see:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Better-Business-Bureau/Arizona-Better-Busin/arizona-better-business-bureau-bx373.htm

And I have been an advocate against the BBB ever since.

If I had renewed my membership this year, I would be rated A, and I was rated A until the mid-August 2009 when the BBB finally accepted the fact that I was not renewing my membership. Soon after, I was re-rated back to A-.

In late spring 2009, the Phoenix BBB invited me to quote for the carpet cleaning at its office. I turned this opportunity down. I thought the offer to quote was like an offer of hush money or the result of guilty conscience.

Approximately 100 A or A+ carpet cleaners/janitorial companies are within 10 miles of the BBB office. Why would it ask an A- janitorial company from 19 miles away for a quote?

I asked for an explanation of their selection criteria and for the names of the other businesses that were invited to bid. After all I was a member of the BBB in good standing, why shouldn't my organization share these things with me?

Maybe it is because I also reminded the sender that her boss had stated publically that higher-rated businesses were more reliable than lesser-rated ones. I asked if he knew that she was going out to an A- company 19 miles away from her office. Of course, I got no response to these questions either.

As can be seen, I come to the anti-BBB table on the basis of principle. I didn't believe in January 2009 that I could trust the BBB and I don't believe I can trust it now.

The American Dental Association doesn't rate dentists, member or non-member. It knows there are too many factors and those factors change too rapidly to be fair and consistent to all dentists. Yet the BBB thinks it can rate every company in every city of the United States and Canada and keep those ratings fair and reliable.

Such arrogance and implausibility is not lost on the business people in the marketplace. marketplace. Such deception will not be lost on the general public for much longer either.

And then there are the BBB's insistencies of its complaint handling system and extortion-like and deceptive sales tactics. These are also matters of great concern in the business world.

The BBB may do a few things right for charity and its employees (and I am guessing here), but its core operations, the things that make it live, are as unethical as the day is long.

Okay we all can see the problems, so what can be done about to stop the BBB?

Let me share with you a few things that haven't worked so far.

I posted a few negative reports on the Internet.

I spoke with the legal counsel for the Phoenix BBB who said that he just could not find anything actionable in what I was saying--no surprise here but it was a first-hand look into how the BBB has defended itself.

I did a ton of research and eventually found BBBRoundUp.com and started to communicate with Jimmie Rivers. I was looking for anyone that was successful in bringing the BBB to heel. There are hints of success against the BBB, but nothing that I could sink my teeth into.

I filed a complaint with the Arizona Attorney General's office. When I got a letter back saying they couldn't help one individual, I called the office and spoke with a representative. In response to my questions, she told me that if the things I was saying were true and more businesses would file the same kind of complaint, the AG's office would likely start an investigation of the BBB. She assured me that the AG would investigate the BBB as readily as any other company.

I called a bunch of poorly-rated dentists. None of them were happy with the BBB. A few of them didn't know they were rated poorly. Others thought complaints were resolved that weren't. Many had BBB horror stories to share.

I even went underground. Jimmie Rivers is the fictitious name of the man behind BBB Round Up. I was the BBB Avenger. Kind of silly now that I think of it. As the BBB Avenger, I faxed and emailed as many businesses not rated A+ as I could find fax numbers and email addresses.

I got some response back, including a prominent local businessman, but on the whole, the response was disappointing. A caped crusader works well in the movies but not so well for underground faxing and emailing campaigns.

I could not find any record of a successful lawsuit against the BBB, though I am sure that some did have success. But in the end, I couldn't see footing the bill for what was likely to be a very expensive loss.

So I can't win in court. My masked man bit didn't work. Firing up one dentist at a time was tedious and depressing with no telling when the scales might tip against the BBB.

I think about going to an investigative reporter, but again, I am just one company with a rather long and confusing, and at the time, incoherent tale.

The story of the BBB's unethical behavior is not big enough, because it is no clear enough. There are so many issues with the BBB that each issue dilutes the strength of the other.

For almost two decades, businesses have begged the BBB to recognize their legitimate grievances, but to little avail. So, what we have done in the past hasn't worked.

What do we have to do differently to make for the real changes in the BBB so many are seeking for?

Born of the failures, came the answers.

1) We need local, state and Federal laws that make non-profit consumer advocacy groups more accountable and transparent to the public.

2) Instead of winning civilly in the courthouse, we need to win in the court of public opinion, where every citizen can judge for themselves who is right and who is wrong.

3) We need hundreds, if not thousands of complaints, to attorney generals and district attorneys, empowering them to investigate the BBB for libel, as well as unfair and deceptive business practices for the good of the general public.

4) We need business owners to stop paying membership dues.

5) Make it undesirable for a respectful business person to be on a BBB board of directors.

6) Invite, inform and empower civic and trade organizations to take action against the BBB

The accomplishment of any one of these six may be enough to force the BBB to play nice, or even flat-out kill it. The accumulative effect of all six happening at the same time would just be, well, an awesome thing to see.

How can we make these six things live?

We need a platform, a foundation, a unifying entity. We need a place where all can come to see what is working and what is not.

Towards this end, on September 1, 2009, I founded the Better Ethics Bureau with accompanying website.

Like the impactful RRRRoundUp.com and MechanicsRepsonse.com, BetterEthicsBureau.org consolidates relevant links into a growing list of references critical of the BBB.

The magnitude of the list is already impressive. This site will make research about the BBB much easier for decision-making, report-writing and presentation-building.
The organization of the site is simple and easy to navigate and update.

As needed, the site is expandable by state, so that each state's culture can be taken into account when formulating plans of action and citizens can see what is It going in their particular state.

Examples of pages for each state may be:
1) Lists off BBB board members (and their businesses) that continue to support the BBB and its unethical practices with their continued service on the board

2) Links to complaint forms for the attorney general and district attorneys

3) References to state laws and proposed changes to the law

4) Press releases and media stories and other references common to a state, including those reporters and publications who are critical of the BBB

5) People and organizations who are out front in the fight against the BBB on a state and local level

6) Any other item that would get the job done in each state

The Better Business Bureau also provides an institution from which press releases can be issued, press releases that may be picked and referenced by more mainstream media.

There is now a foundation and a road map. Now all we have to do is make it happen.

If you would like to get involved and get things going in your state, please email Scott Jordan, at messages@betterethicsbureau.org and we will go from there.

Boingo bought out the LA (BBB). What's next? The Better Business Bureau gave Boingo an F until recently when Boingo decided to become a member. Boingo became a member of and accredited by the LA BBB on 8/19/2009. Their rating automatically went from an F to a B- how ironic. According to the BBB Round up, an organization investigating the LA BBB, Memberships range from $365 per year up to $8000 with an average membership fee of $425.

Below is Boingo's rating before joining the LA BBB:
Complaint Closing Statistics
24 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
7 Making a partial refund
10 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
1 Refusing to make an adjustment
6 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
17 Unanswered
0 Unassigned
65 Total
Company Rating F
LA BBB opinion of what this rating means:
We strongly question the company’s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law’s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company’s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices.

Below is the rating they give Boingo after they joined the LA BBB on 8/19/09
Complaint Closing Statistics
41 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
6 Making a partial refund
19 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
1 Refusing to make an adjustment
5 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
0 Unanswered
0 Unassigned
72 Total

Company Rating B-
LA BBB opinion of what this rating means:
A good rating that still implies reputability. The rating may relate to length of time in business, a past problem that’s been corrected, or something else that does not cause problems for consumers. We believe a company with this rating would generally conduct business and respond to any complaints satisfactorily.

It's all in the numbers as they magically transformed. For example before joining the LA BBB the number of Making a full refund, as the consumer requested was 24. After joining the LA BBB, the number of Making a full refund, as the consumer requested near doubled magically to 41. Four (4) consumers wrote review on the LA BBB Trust Link complaining about Boingo fraudulent billing practices and they all rated Boingo 1 out of 5 stars. It won't be too long before Boingo or the LA BBB change the customer current reviews by either removing or adding to the review in Boingo's favor.

Thanks for the site. There are many ethical hardworking business owners whose businesses and reputations get trashed unjustifiably by the BBB. The BBB provides a public forum for unsubstantiated, reckless, and false claims to be posted. They allow a response but they make no pretense about being interested in the facts of the complaint either way. Their rating system is not transparent and obviously deeply flawed if the LA Times and Disneyland can be F rated businesses one day and then A rated overnight. Care to explain this mystery BBB or make your rating 'system' transparent? Didn't think so. What a farce, and damaging to economy.

take a look at enterprise rent a car---thousands of complaints----but ah !---a ploy---isn't it peculiar in that only the st louis and surrounding area are listed in quite a few states !---what good does that tell the consumer if he lives in philadelphia ?----think of why they are doing this !

it would be nice if everyone knew what some bbb's are doing------letting in some business for almost nothing--for example----companies with 400 to 600 employies let in or offered to be let in at rates between 400 to 550 dollars---a slap in the face to the small guy--i'm not kidding !i have proof !---i worked there and i'm in shock

Made our comments on our website - waterproofingdanburyct.com - a little more to the point...

Anyone wishing to comment on the posting, pro or con, Email us @ - aaahomerepair@sbcglobal.net...

Jack/AAA

I own a small business, 5-10 employees, for seven years now. I don't mislead, mis guide, mis represent anything I do to any of my clients. I was a member of the BBB in 2004 for one year and chose not to renew. My rating droped from an A+ to a B-. After sucessfully handling over 20,000 clients throughout the years I have had two complaints against me, one I never know about. This puts my company down to an F rating Nationaly. I have been told if I become a member that my rating will change condierably. Does that mean to have a satisfactory rating with the BBB, I have to pay them? They are the crooks as far as I am concerned.

Sure I trust the BBB, doesn't everyone??? They are the good guys, they save me money and do allot of tv education info. They have always helped me and my family, saved me money and now they do ratings...much easier, much faster...they have always been fair. I have always had good service from their lists....just my thoughts. MS

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that they can be a useful and helpful organization WHEN THEY ARE FAIR. I think their switch to a letter grade has shown that too many of their ratings are distorted however. This was something that was not nearly so visible under their old Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory grading system. Jimmie Rivers

This is not limited to CA...

We are a waterproofing business in CT and agree 100% that this "rating" system does not pass the smell test!!! - so does the CT ATTORNEY GENERALS office...

We have devoted an entire page to this subject on our website - www.aaahomerepair.com...

If this farce floats I suppose next the BBB will be doing "sponsered links" (this "rating system"is pretty close)- at least that would be upfront and honest as to what it really is - "PAY FOR PLAY"///

Jack Cimino
Danbury, Ct.
owner - AAA Home Repair
Danbury, Ct.
CT lic contractor

Email: aaahomerepair@sbcglobal.net

Thank you for this brilliant piece of investigative reporting. The bbb is a sham something many of us have know for sometime now. I work in orange county California in the financial services field and i can't tell you how many people i have unsuccessfuly tried to explain our " F " rating to.

how do you get them to change a bogus grade?

See today's blog post that answers your question.

Great job Jimmie, everyone needs to know how shady the BBB is.

I think it's unfair they way they rate the companies. Some of the information is never investigated. Another problem is depending who pays the most money gets a better rating than those who pay a lesser amount.